Members Present: HHS: Nancy Schuler, Frank Proto, Stuart Stein, Daniel Winch

Planning: Dooley Kiefer, Peter Penniman (Stein & Winch)

Member Excused: HHS: Leslyn McBean

Planning: George Totman

Others Present: John Andersson, T C Environmental Health, Jeff Cox, EMC, Jackie Crane, NYS Nursery/Landscape Assoc., Brenda Grinnell Crosby, T C Public Health, Joan Jurkowich, TCPD, Tom Mank, TCPD, David Mastroberti, Cayuga Landscape Co., Kenneth Miller, T C Farm Bureau, Stephen Nicholson, EMC, Monika Roth, Cooperative Extension, David Ryan, NYS Nursery/Landscape Assoc., Craig Schutt, T C Soil & Water Conservation District, Mikel Shakarjian, T C Administration, Wendy Skinner, T C Public Information, Kathryn Smithers, Tompkins Co. Admin., Kathy Wilsea, Secretary, TCPD, Judy Wright, Southern Tier Nursery & Landscape Assoc.

        The Health & Human Services Committee remained in session. Planning Committee Chair Peter Penniman called the Planning Committee to order at 11:45 AM.

        Mr. Penniman noted that the preservation of the health and safety of the residents of Tompkins County remains the goal of this group as they review recommendations on a Pesticide Neighbor Notification law. Mr. Penniman asked attendees to introduce themselves.

        Steve Nicholson, as chair of the Environmental Management Council Pesticides Committee, provided handouts. He noted the color sheets were information from last year, when the Committee was formed. The white sheets are Broome County EMC’s recommendation to their legislature. Several EMC members attended a state-wide conference with a guest speaker, Robert Haggerty, chief of the Pesticide Reporting section of DEC. Mr. Nicholson noted that five counties have enacted the Pesticide Neighbor Notification Law: Albany, Nassau, Suffolk, Ulster and Westchester. Albany’s law has a sunset provision, so the law will expire in one year unless renewed. Mr. Haggerty said DEC will provide assistance in enforcement, information, and response to complaints. Albany County has had 23 complaints that led to warning letters, and Westchester has had 100 complaints that led to warning letters.

        Mr. Nicholson read from a pamphlet from the Attorney General, Citizen’s Guide to Pesticide Laws in New York State. It noted that registration of a chemical with the Environmental Protection Agency does not equal safety. Many lawncare pesticides are classified as possible/probable carcinogens.

        Jerry Kimmell, of DEC Region 7, could attend a public meeting if Tompkins wishes to pursue enacting the law. He has also mentioned DEC could aid in enforcement. Mr. Nicholson felt that Tompkins County Solid Waste might help with enforcement.
Broome County EMC has recommended that Broome County not pursue enactment of the law. Four of the five counties that opted in are facing lawsuits, not on enforcement issues but regarding failure of the opt in law to comply with SEQR.

        The position of the EMC is that they see problems with the law. It would be difficult to enforce and they would expect five to ten complaints in the first year. EMC is more concerned with pursuing the purpose of the law. US Geological Survey has a water guide which is available, and he handed out some copies. The presence of atrazine in Cayuga Lake is the highest in the Finger Lakes, and the Pesticides Committee feels EPA needs to change the acceptable levels because they are currently too lax. Atrazine is the most widely used pesticide in the world.

        Ken Miller asked if atrazine is used in lawn care. Mr. Nicholson said no, it is primarily used for agriculture. Public awareness of pesticide use is zero. Enactment of the law would begin a public dialogue and education.

        Frank Proto asked how the Cayuga Lake level of atrazine compares with the other Finger Lakes. Mr. Nicholson did not have that information, but all levels are within federal guidelines. Mr. Penniman asked if EMC supports enacting the law in Tompkins County. Mr. Nicholson said the Pesticides Committee does, but the EMC as a whole has not discussed it.

        Monika Roth of Cornell Cooperative Extension conducted a survey this Fall of landscapers and arborists; about 90% gave information, but one large company (Prolawn) did not respond. The results were provided in a handout. She reviewed pesticide use for the respondents. 25 firms responded. 12 reported that they use pesticides: 3 use Roundup and 2 arborists use horticultural oil. The other 7 pesticide users apply pesticides primarily to lawns, using granular Disyston and granular or liquid turf herbicides, plus Roundup, horticultural oils and Maujet tree injections. She estimated the total number of customers to be 500-600, which equals 0.5% of County residents.

        When respondents were asked about the impact of such a law on their business, the response was varied from moderate to major. Some noted that they might need to drop that aspect of their business. There was concern that small businesses could not compete. One company felt granular products are more hazardous to their staff. Granular applications take about twice as much time to apply as liquid, and they are difficult to plan due to weather changes.

        Dan Winch said the industry is broad and everchanging. He had a pesticide application license, which required annual report to DEC. Information is available from DEC if we want it. He expressed more concern about homeowners who use too much concentrate, rather than misuse by commercial applicators. Steve Nicholson said posting of informational consumer signs at retail site (section 2, item 1 of yellow handout "Summary of Provisions") could be a key step in Tompkins County.

        Stu Stein said he understood from discussion last year that the County would need to adopt the state law, all or nothing. The City couldn’t enact it; the County could not enact segments. Mr. Nicholson said that appears to be correct. There has been no information from the state that a county could enact a portion of the law.

        Frank Proto said Cooperative Extension or EMC could pursue a public information campaign. Is that correct? It would impact fewer than 20 establishments. Ms. Roth said an education campaign is possible. Retailers would probably cooperate. This year the Cooperative Extension did one class, a radio public-service announcement, and a newspaper article.

        Mr. Stein expressed concern that the history of public education is not effective, noting tobacco and genetically altered food. It would not be beneficial to take for granted that it would be effective. Mr. Proto said high-traffic areas such as the Solid Waste Center would be good places to provide information. We would need to be aggressive and ingenious. He agreed that it can’t be taken for granted. It would need to be a long-term program because of population changes in the County. He noted that the recycling brochure is issued every year.

        David Ryan read a prepared statement from the New York State Nursery/Landscape Association. They feel the law is flawed and are willing to participate in a public education program. They feel the law would mean more pesticide use, not less, as applicators would use stronger chemicals the first time to try to be effective without re-treating the same land. He noted that the law that currently applies to schools allows them to establish a registry of people who request notification, not notify everyone every time they intend to use chemicals. The Association would like to see a registry for professionals rather than require notice to all neighbors of customers. Working with the industry to keep professional application affordable will help keep chemical use at a moderate level and cost.

        Mr. Stein asked what a registry is. Mr. Ryan said people who wish to be notified would register with the Department of Health and contractors would notify only the people on those lists. This is in effect in Ulster County. Mr. Penniman asked if there is a tracking system for compliance. That was unknown.

        Mr. Stein asked if commercial applicators would help with a public education program on the retail program. Although retailers are required to provide information on chemicals, applicators are willing to participate. David Mastroberti said Cayuga Landscape answers telephone calls all the time about chemical use. He feels they probably answer as many as Cooperative Extension. Much public information has been provided by the firm.

        Ms. Roth said she is willing to develop public information materials. Mr. Penniman suggested she share ideas with other counties.

        Mr. Mastroberti said commercial applicators are already restricted to not allow "drift" of chemicals. In that way, neighbors are already protected. Applicators also need to post signs the same day they spray.

        Jeff Cox said he would like to see a meeting of EMC members and commercial applicators before the public is included. There are many details that need dialogue, for example, the industry says applications dry quickly, but pesticides can get on shoes and be tracked into homes. Enacting the law locally might not reduce use, but it would make neighbors aware. This law does not further restrict the type of chemicals available for use.

        Mr. Penniman asked EMC to develop a joint meeting with applicators and Cooperative Extension for discussion of a public information campaign.

        Mr. Nicholson noted that pesticide use for lawn care is an aesthetic use, not for food. Property owners are using chemicals for cosmetic reasons.

        Judy Wright said she spoke with several small Southern Tier applicators who commented that they would give up application licenses if the local law was enacted. They also are willing to help with education or registry programs.

        Kenneth Miller said there are currently laws mandating postings for same day applications. It is well known that homeowners use more pesticides than commercial or agricultural applicators.

        Mr. Proto, Vice-Chair of the Health and Human Services Committee, adjourned HHS at 12:27 PM. The Planning Committee took a break before their Regular Meeting.

Respectfully submitted:

Kathy Wilsea, Secretary
Tompkins County Planning Department